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      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2009
     
    has anybody anything against me using bits from the forum for captioning my pix?

    ie: got pix from the mantathlon right, so i asked mikey if i could used something he posted here for thanking everybody who helped him out. what i'll do is copy what he wrote adding in the end -mikey, moving target, 04.06.09-
    in this way it will work as a ministory in itself and make sense.

    i really hope this is ok with everybody,'cause it'd make a massive difference!

    am still going through and running out of time but by sunday night i can let people know what i used and where so i'll send everything to the printer on monday.short notice yes, but at least no stealing no secrets.
    just to put it in context once again, it's a school project, no money involved apart the one going out of my pockets, no proper publishing or anything like that. not that i wouldn't like to, but i doubt it'd ever happen. if so, of course you'll know as soon as i will.
    the book will be ready early september, and surely it will make its way around and to the foundry for being checked out by whoever may be interested in seeing the result/reason of all my hassling here:)

    having said that, got a final question....what's the "thing" about this job and its people, why is so loved and hated, and why becomes addictive? is it just because of the bike, or the beer, and the combination of the two?

    thanks a lot

    lisa
    • CommentAuthorsleepy
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2009
     
    quote away
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2009
     
    Quote,young lady,quote like the wind!
    •  
      CommentAuthornanu
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2009
     
    is it just because of the bike, or the beer, and the combination of the two?
    :rolling:

    That's quite possibly the best answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.
    • CommentAuthorredrum
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2009
     
    the bike the beer and....Im sure there was something else...
  6.  
    Wasn't that the title of Ben Fincham's paper on bicycle couriers? Beer, fags and bicycle racing.
    •  
      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009
     
    yes it is, the exact title is "‘Generally speaking people are in it for the cycling and the beer’: Bicycle couriers,
    subculture and enjoyment". the "generally speaking" is quite vague, but i think he's quoting somebody he interviewed. to be honest it is also what i've been told 95% of the time. half truth,vague, omitting, i don't know, do you? you surely know to what extent is explanatory or superficial. i guess it's not so black and white, but that's just a guess.

    personally, i thought was a sort of "in between" job, whereas most of the people i met ended up doing it for long time.
    what's the trick then?
    the answers i got are
    -it's good fun
    -it's getting paid for riding your bike
    -it's good people
    -it's decent pay when there is work
    -i wouldn't fit int any other job
    -i wouldn't know what else to do
    -it's like an addiction, easy to start difficult to quit.
    -it's just a job
    more or less in this order.
    anything to add?

    regarding fincham work, as a sociologist he stressed the importance and peculiarity of "fun" as the factor that bonded couriers together and built the scene/subculture (it usually doesn't happen). am not writing a dissertation and any informed reference is good and welcome.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009 edited
     
    @redrum
    Dressing up in women's clothing!
  9.  
    ‘Generally speaking people are in it for the cycling and the beer’

    I have a feeling that I said that to him - but it could have been any of us, though.
  10.  
    For me, it was being paid to ride your bike. And the beer.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009
     
    I'm re-reading Fincham's paper at the moment-Lisa kindly sent me it-and it's bang on.There's no bullshit or sensationalism in the way he writes about us and I believe he did the job too.Nothing much has changed either,"There is an alleyway alongside the pub which, after about eight o’clock would
    be full of messengers smoking spliffs or taking cocaine."
    Hahaha!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009
     
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009
     
    Nice!
  14.  
    Ben worked as a courier in Cardiff. He came down to London in 2003, and helped out with 2003 ECMC, mainly at the gallery at 491.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009
     
    Oi Bill,fancy a pint at the "Earl of Lancaster"?:tooth:
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009
     
    ‘Generally speaking people are in it for the cycling and the beer’

    I have a feeling that I said that to him - but it could have been any of us, though.





    It was Dee.
  17.  
    Dee?
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009 edited
     
    "I think that most places people who are couriers enjoy cycling, at least
    I would like to think that. I honestly think that generally speaking people
    are in it for the cycling and the beer. There definitely is that party culture."
    (Dee interview transcript 05.06.2003)
  19.  
    Yeah, I think that is me (only with my name changed!)
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009
     
    Dee?
    Hahahahahaha!
    •  
      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009
     
    did you ask him to change the name or did he do it himself? just curiose.
  22.  
    He changed all the names.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzero cc
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2009
     
    Cyclically speaking, I'm in it for the Queers and the Generals.
    •  
      CommentAuthorPapa44
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009
     
    Drinking, smoking and wheelies. although no-one but estate kids do wheelies anymore :-(
    •  
      CommentAuthorzero cc
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009
     
    "having said that, got a final question....what's the "thing" about this job and its people, why is so loved and hated, and why becomes addictive? is it just because of the bike, or the beer, and the combination of the two?"

    the bike, the beer, the coffee, the food, the crosswords, the Big Issue sellers, the good weather, the bad weather, the traffic, the city, the people, the money, the friends, the hills, the cobblestones, the lifts, the city, the concentration of will, the rush, the big dirty reality of freedom...
    • CommentAuthorJP
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009
     
    The adiction for me is in the traffic... A few days off and Im dreaming about getting stuck into a log-jammed pile of buses and cars...
    •  
      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009 edited
     
    yesterday i got the more unique quote so far:
    "i always loved cycling and always did it, but i was bit wild when i was younger, you know what i mean....i started being a courier for becoming normal..."
    • CommentAuthorjontyponty
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009
     
    Yeah traffic's the thing that makes it a different kind of cycling to track or road racing. Plus the car fumes, I swear there's something pleasurably addictive about them.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzero cc
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2009
     
    It's one of the few ways to maintain a 'marginal' lifestyle & ethos...
    •  
      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2009
     
    @zerocc
    so you agree with this?
    “the dangerous working environment and subsequent cultural expressions that arose from people working as bicycle messengers heightened their sense of marginality in several ways"
    •  
      CommentAuthorzero cc
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2009
     
    @lisa - interesting question: sorta cuts to the quick...
    Some of us came to this with our 'sense of marginality' already in place and were glad to have it reinforced.
    Others came and discovered their marginality: like all converts, they are a little too eager...
    Others said 'fuck that' and carried on as before - sublime and indifferent. They are the interesting ones.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzero cc
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2009
     
    BTW - can I get a copy of this Fincham piece: sorta missed out...
    •  
      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2009
     
    sure, need your email please :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorzero cc
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009
     
    just click on my name, just above, and -
    •  
      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009
     
    zero, so you're saying there are 3 types of couriers right?
    about number one, i think they like to reinforce their marginality because by doing so in the end it disappears. you find mates not just colleagues, people like you or who like the same things you do...it's just a common ground, like a common place where to stand. bottom line it's all about sense of belonging, you feel part of something quite big -thinking of all the international events for couriers- and being a couriers becomes your new positive status.no?

    number 2, am not sure. are we talking about the ones really into the " scene" in a sort of glamorous snobby way?i don't know, if you say converts i think of fanatics...

    number 3, where to find them? and why they avoid the "scene" or get sick with it?

    somebody told in the past it was just a job, whereas now you really need to be "dedicated" to it...
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009
     
    I think I told you this recently,Lisa,that the reason I became a cycle-courier was because I didn't wanna work on building sites anymore.It was just a job which became something more as time passed.
    What I cannot understand is when I hear of people wanting to be a courier because it looks cool!
    Looks f*cking cool????It's a shitty job at times but it's the other riders that I've met over the years from all around the world that have made it worthwhile for me.And the beer and the bikes.:bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorangeleyes
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009
     
    i think the 3rd type are the ones who grow out of it a bit faster than the rest, maybe because of age , maybe because of character , or maybe they are more focused in achieving or have their own plans rather just float around waiting for it to happen.I dont think they are sick , i take an example from myself , i never took part in an aleycat , i stoped going to the pub after work (duke usually) years ago , i stopped chasing new bike frames and the rest (just one bike at any given time), i just cared about making money and trying to get out to something more rewarding if you like , i could never understand were all these ppl find the strength to do an aleycat after a whole week of riding, was never much of a drinker , and although i like cycling as much as anyone here, one bike was more than enough for me albeit a bit extravagant has to be said.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009
     
    I remember seeing you on the road,you rode slowly so you wouldn't have done well in alleycat anyway.:tooth:
    •  
      CommentAuthorangeleyes
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009
     
    I like to believe i could still catch anyone if i wanted to, didnt know there was a race going one while working overdrive.The key here is motivation my friend, not physical strength.
    I was rather slow all the time anyway , on and off the bike , and jumping lights all the time or making the extra drop never appealed to me as much as other did.Maybe in the end i knew it wouldn't make much difference.
    As for aleycat i always fancied it for the fun of it which am sure is , but fuk me come friday afternoon last thing i wanted was to keep cycling.

    Oh and forgot to say to all the fast riders out there, well done another trophy on the wall.
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009
     
    There have been workday alleycats which are great fun.You carry out tasks whilst you do a days work and at the end meet at a pub to see how you've done.
    These days alleycats are mostly fundraisers for the LCEF so they've become more than just a laugh(which indeed they are).

    By the way,it's still not too late to race one,I was in my mid-thirties when I first did an alleycat and look at me now mamma,I've won three!
    •  
      CommentAuthorzero cc
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009
     
    "zero, so you're saying there are 3 types of couriers right?"

    Nope, but three is always a good trope, from comedy to anthropology.
    •  
      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009
     
    :smoking:
    •  
      CommentAuthorThe.Pike
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2009 edited
     
    theres only 1 type of messenger! thats a messenger!:boogie::shades:
    • CommentAuthorsleepy
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2009
     
    can we make a fourth category for wayne please? :wink:
    •  
      CommentAuthoroverdrive
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2009
     
    CommentAuthorThe.Pike CommentTime13 hours ago edited



    "theres only 1 type of messenger! thats a messenger!"


    :shocked: ^^^I have no idea what this means^^^:shocked:
    •  
      CommentAuthorzero cc
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2009
     
    ..because it means nothing: reducto ad absurdum.
    • CommentAuthordubmess
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2009
     
    Lisa! Could you mail me a copy of that Fincham paper as well? Sounds interesting... Cheers! (email address is in my profile)
    •  
      CommentAuthorlisa
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2009 edited
     
    ok, very last thing *hopefully*.
    Q&A mini and open interview.
    anybody's welcome to answer. (clearly inspired by Red Light Go!)

    Name
    Nickname
    age
    Place of origin
    Years on the job
    when/why you stopped(if you did )what are you doing now
    Bike (brand/type, Name?)
    Best place to ride (in london possibly)
    Worst
    Fastest street
    Fav place in London (one of those secret special places you get to see during work...)
    Favorite lobby
    Favorite bathroom
    Favorite bike shop
    Fav building
    Fav food during work
    Dislikes
    like
    A puncture every….. Days
    any crash and how
    ONE adjective for pedestrians
    one for lorries
    onefor other cyclists
    one for your fellow messengers
    one for the job itself
    best memory
    worst memory
    an interesting fact?
    Motto/"statement" ( about the job, or something else….up to you, anything you wanna say in case you wanna say something)

    anything you want to add? feel free...

    cheers.

    btw, will upload fincham's article online and link it here :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorzero cc
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2009
     
    Name zero
    Nickname zero
    age 51
    Place of origin Sarf London
    Years on the job 25
    when/why you stopped(if you did )what are you doing now still going
    Bike (brand/type, Name?) Burrows 8 Freight
    Best place to ride (in london possibly) Asda Longsight car park (fresh tarmac)
    Worst Kabul High Street
    Fastest street Snake Pass
    Fav place in London (one of those secret special places you get to see during work...)
    The Temple
    Favorite lobby none
    Favorite bathroom LHS 6th Fl Bowater Hse (gone)
    Favorite bike shop Bicycle Boutique
    Fav building Lloyds
    Fav food during work Coffee
    Dislikes
    like
    A puncture every….. Days 365
    any crash and how all my own fault...
    ONE adjective for pedestrians stupid
    one for lorries careless
    one for other cyclists beautiful
    one for your fellow messengers outrageous
    one for the job itself lor'luv'a'duck
    best memory too many
    worst memory too many
    an interesting fact? The Elephant is the only animal with four knees
    Motto/"statement" ( about the job, or something else….up to you, anything you wanna say in case you wanna say something) Love me or FUCK OFF
    •  
      CommentAuthorPapa44
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2009
     
    Name: steve
    Nickname: papa44
    age: 34
    Place of origin: London
    Years on the job: 12 (but on and off)
    when/why you stopped(if you did )what are you doing now: getting run over (at work) forced me to stop first time round and take up a proper job, got bored after a few years and went back. sholder injury forced retirement (not work related).
    Bike (brand/type, Name?): rigid steel single speed on-one inbred. two brakes motherfuckers.
    Best place to ride (in london possibly): the City on a Sunday (Liverpool Street to St Pauls)
    Worst: hmmm... Elephant and Castle roundabout or most of clapton
    Fastest street: City Road, depending which way you're headed
    Fav place in London (one of those secret special places you get to see during work...): i agree it has to be Temple
    Favorite lobby: ha ha... ok, there was this one place in soho that had awesome receptionists that used to book menial jobs and ask for me, so i would come in and they could look at my arse or whatever it is girls look at (i was about 21 at the time and riding in lycra was ok back then) suited me just fine.
    Favorite bathroom: anywhere above the 8th floor at center point, you can have a dump and look out over London. almost at the same time.
    Favorite bike shop: cycle surgery, because i have friends there
    Fav building: St Pauls, inside the whispering gallery.
    Fav food during work: baked potato
    Dislikes: almost exactly everything that isn't me
    like: cycling round new towns
    A puncture every….. 30 Days on new tyres, 3 days on old ones
    any crash and how: i'll keep it to the work stuff unless you have a lot of time on your hands. hit and run by car on wrong side of the road at 30+ (stitches: ankle, leg, hip, arm); brake cable snapped, headfirst into moped (concussion, stitches), drunk bunnyhop over speed hump (severed achilies heal, septicemia, multiple wrist fractures, stitches); crash into back of taxi/van with pedal slip, straight up the shin, anyone remember terrorpins? (twice, about 20 stitches each time); drunk rode into roadworks barrier (broken knuckle and apparently you cant stich knuckles so, you know, plasters. but manly ones): take for granted the million anecdotes about being knocked off without injury. although there was this one time a taxi hit the back of my bike and snapped the rear triangle clean off, which was quite surreal
    ONE adjective for pedestrians: lemmings
    one for lorries: intimidating
    onefor other cyclists: tools. all of 'em
    one for your fellow messengers: grunt
    one for the job itself: freedom
    best memory: a lot that involve rolling around town in nice sunny weather feeling happy i'm not stuck inside
    worst memory: a lot that involve rolling around town in windy rainy weather feeling sad i'm not stuck inside
    an interesting fact? i know london better than 99% of the people that populate it
    "statement" Messengering: drinking, smoking, fucking and fighting

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