freedom is overrated when there are so many people who'll put their personal wealth ahead of people who do a dangerous job for very little

marc- you've offered to give us the full story on AY, i'm assuming you mean MY as AY was sold to addy lee along with their car service ~6 months before the shit really hit the fan. as someone who was sat in the empty shell of the sclater st office with the landlord telling us to get the fuck out while we were waiting for central express work to arrive from the island i'd be really interested to hear your take on it.

.

The end

Flippin 'eck Mr P, thats quite a read...

thats quite a story!! ????????

And it continues! We will get the truth in the end!

patton that is

signing off

(and)



CommentAuthormarcpatton CommentTime8 hours ago
Going back to my days at Reuter Brooks. After the demise of AY cars sold to Addison Lee for £1.5m (£500k immediate and the last £1m over 2 years), it was only a matter of time before the couriers (MY) came with it. Citigroup being of course the key. I sat back waiting patiently as I took small clients, medium clients, and on the day of Addison Lee buying the couriers (not 100% sure if it was from the liquidators but I think so) Citigroup had no contract with Addison lee and I took full advantage and was surprised that this happened but it did. As far as I was concerned my job was done. John Lister had an E14 office which he wanted to use for Citigroup as they already had Lehmans. He did that. John and Steve “almost as incompetent as Malcolm fullick” Purkiss did not want to invest money in a location in the City which was understandable as that is not cheap, but instead decided on the SE1 location. I didn’t agree with this but hey I wasn’t the boss. John honoured my commission deal, and I went self employed as a consultant in the private hire business. After that I didn’t sell for Reuter Brooks at all. I passed a few leads onto Greg or Lorraine but these were very few and far between.

About 12-18 months later I was called by CitySprint to discuss a deal after Citigroup had expressed there desire to leave Reuter Brooks. They didn’t feel that one supplier was enough (John and Steve were not getting on well with the client), and CitySprint were informed of the CentralExpress service and my involvement. I liked what I saw, I was bored with the car business, and in 2005 I agreed to join CitySprint. Fortunately CitySprint already had 2 large E14 clients (one from Reuter Brooks way before my time) and with the addition of Citigroup this would result in an immediate CentralExpress impact. It actually took 12 months to setup and after this time Citigroup were actually still spending £400K a year with Reuter Brooks. I was able to secure more clients in E14 and as a result CitySprint own CentralExpress and the cycle couriers have access to over 300 jobs a day that would normally go exclusively on motorbikes. The demise of Reuter Brooks cannot be put on my shoulders. I never took any clients proactively, Citi was the only client that I took, and even then it was only about 25% of the business. John Lister was an honourable man (one of very few in this business) but at the end of the day he was too limited in his thinking. He would not compromise on price, and whilst that is admirable his business was stripped away by London Executive, MPC (now Excel), CitySprint but more than anyone else E courier. All willing to do the same job with a new sexy and fresh booking platform and for less money. At CitySprint it has been hard graft in a hard market. Price has become the main focus. Clients do want the service but are not prepared for it. That’s not a Marc Patton initiative that is simply the way it is. We have to look at what we do and find out how we can do it better and cheaper. IT and transparency of jobs have prevented us from pulling fast ones, the premium services where courier companies really do make there margins are being reduced dramatically. The £2.95 price is the new £4.95 price, SLA’s (service level agreements) that every large client now has do not take into consideration snow, rain, or traffic are law. And of course, the people who will suffer the most is the courier, that will not change. Cycle couriers are getting it, motorbikes have always had it although the reliance on the fact that there still better off than if they were back in Brazil is still be taken advantage of, and van couriers who have to endure fuel increases, congestion charge, traffic, and high insurance premiums plus van rentals. No courier is immune. Everyone thinks the grass is greener on the other side. Rubbish. AY, Mach 1, Kourier, Reuter Brooks, AtoZ , Premier Despatch all good companies in there day at one stage or another, but all failed in the end. We allow clients to change supplier every 1-3 years and what happens? They pay less for the same service with someone else. Not the couriers decision but at the end of the day it is what is happening. I hear Addison Lee mentioned about how they compete on service and not price. A fantastic company, with a strong management team, headed by a man who in his words “doesn’t shovel shit” but its there car business which is doing all the growing. They are unrivalled. Its where the buying experience is that much more personal. People will pay more for the service in cars than couriers. Addison Lee have grown there courier work through acquisition and through there car business. The majority of there clients are the smaller clients that will pay £4.95 - £7.95 for a minimum. However what large courier contracts have they won recently I ask? I am aware of several of there medium sized contract up for renewal and half of these will leave as there courier spend isn’t linked to there cars (different purchasers). Deutsche Bank a good solid cycle courier account that has been with Premier for years, acquired by Addison Lee, has left to go to Courier Systems for £2.25 minimums (charge, not pay). In 5 years time, who knows there may only be a couple of courier companies left (I hope Courier Systems isn’t one of them mind). So enough with the victimisation, as we could be working with one another again in the future, and I can assure you that I am not the person I was at AY. As for a big house, and a big car, and a big wad. I live in a nice end of terraced house in Sutton, I drive an 18 month year old Toyota Rav 4, and I earn less than half I did 5 years ago, but I still enjoy it. This is the balding, lard ass signing off as I have work to do to try and stop courier systems from buying anymore business and thus ruining the
industry even further.

Mummy make the words stop!

I think we should vote John Firefly "Man of the Year"
Words fail me.
What a tit.
Let’s get this straight. The bloke is a self-employed cycle courier. Because of the idiotic way this industry is run, he’s forced to use an agency to get work. He’s been instrumental in a client moving its business from one agency he doesn’t work for – possibly an agency that pays its self-employed cyclists £3 minimums – to an agency that pays its self-employed cyclists £1 minimums.
For this, he’s been paid a few hundred quid.
Well done, "Firefly".
If Alastair Darling resigns, there could be a well-paid job for you at 11 Downing Street. You have exactly the type of fiscal acumen required for the position.
Was this few hundred quid paid in pieces of silver?
Bill! Come on, now! Play the game. Send this fine "Firefly" chap a selection of comps slips with the contact details of Creative's your best accounts on them, then we can all earn £1 as a minimum, rather than the outrageous rates Creative pay.
It’s amazing that some folk think the Native Americans who sold Manhattan Island for a few trinkets and beads were stupid.

As has been said on here before, salesmen at courier companies do not bring any new business to the same day bike industry. They don't entice business away from the Post Office, railways, overnight services or taxis. They just nick accounts from other courier firms. That’s all the salesmen at City Sprint do.
Salesmen's wages and commission come entirely from the percentage of riders’ and drivers’ earnings agencies like City Sprint deduct from riders’ and drivers’ paycheques. All salesmen’s wages come from the same source. For cutting the wages of riders and drivers and for bringing no new business to the riders and drivers whose labours pay them their wage.
You couldn’t make it up.

Well done, "Firefly".
I'll buy you a drink next time I'm in the Duke of York.

Friar Bellows, what on earth are you going on about. Its the free market whether you like it or not. Salespeople sell, whether its through new initiatives or taking work from other companies at a lesser price. It always has been, it always will be. This posting is easy, overdriver, Mike T, Pikey, John Scott, Nick P, the answer for you is simple. Start your own courier company and see how far you get. I'll even contribute £500 towards the startup costs which i'm sure you will spend wisely in your management meetings down the duke (if thats still the place to go). You can even donate all your profits (if by some miracle you make any) to the LCEF fund, increasing your legendary status even further amongst yourselves.

I ignored a few people who said don't bother wasting my time writing on this site, but i'm genuinely enjoying it and as long as more open minded people come onto it then that would be great. I might even try and persuade my managers to sponsor it subject to Bill approving it. If not the money can go to the LCEF.

Mike T, very disappointed in you. I have heard that you worked in an office at CYC before being made redundant so you should have some idea on how business works. But what can i say? If a man in his mid to late 40's can't act like an adult what can i do?? Still please keep up the fat c**t remarks as its really is motivating me to address my weight issues. Wild goose has even offered to be my personal trainer. Plus if i need a good old swedish massage at least i know where to go eh?

A name i heard mentioned. Lawrence Eberhard, a genuinely nice bloke, but not fit for the office. If your reading Lawrence apologies for being somewhat unkind to you, you are one of the good guys. As for sexist, maybe a little but when i get to your age Mike T i probably will be a lot more chilled.

One last point Mike, i have never even worked with you, but hey if i make those longs days go quicker for you, you carry on but please if you can, show some initiative, show that you have something interesting to say, show that you are better than this. Show that you can hold an adult conversation, that your vocabularly extends further to standard overused swear words, and basic insults. If Pikey can do it Mike, i'm sure you can. i won't hold my breath though.

A goods day pay for a hard days graft, always available at CitySprint.

Ha Ha Ha, city sprint riders are king? Everyone knows Metro was number 1 for big bucks. As Over75 is the last remaining rider there, i crown him emperor of London. God save the Queen.

I think the contact of a person within an industry and the reputation he builts is more of an ethical question.Of cource as long as no one has any evidence for illegal wrongdoings then there is no need for accusations .On the other hand the reputation is still there for a reason , good or bad and usually has some substance behind it.I personally don't care about the salesman practice or how an individual will work his way up the ladder , that's his personal choice as long is not illegal.If someone is not happy at his work place then Its a simple case of choosing weather someone wants to keep working at a particular place or not .Malpractices mostly if not always in the courier industry come always from the management side simply because the regulation is not there yet to protect the courier adequately (and i might add to that in a lot of other low pay professions specifically here in Great Britain) all in the name of free economy of course .To accuse one person rightly or wrongly that he is 'bad' wont change a thing because he will replaced probably by someone even more ambitious and ruthless to succeed,and the cycle will continue.I worked in about 4-5 different courier firms over the years and irrelevant to how good or bad i was treated by the management/controller my overall situation never changed, i was still a courier with all the good and bad that comes with it and no one was going to Iook after me but my self only.And i don't think there was a marcpatton in every firm i worked, and maybe there was one , so what? i don't know marcpatton in person but it sounds like someone who had to stay afloat and rescue his own skin first a few times , but can i accuse him of that? ,I don't expecting him to be my daddy and look after me as i would not expect the same thing if i was in his shoes. Maybe i would go for a pint with him maybe i wouldn't maybe i would work for him maybe i wouldn't.But i wouldn't blame ppl like him for my situation not because he would be totally irrelevant but because it wouldn't change a thing, the whole industry sucks if you ask me .If you cant better your situation in any way and you think this is not worthy of your efforts then simply move on.

"Jason is way way out of my control (i have several managers that i answer to). As for coa's i can assure you from i know (which is very little) it certainly was not coa's. Why no police? Its a question i have asked many times, but way above my pay grade."


When it comes to a crime being committed, it is not your managers that you have to answer to and has nothing to do with your pay grade. I believe your obligation under law, is to inform the police. I do believe that failure to do so would make you an accessory to fraud...
As to the nature of the fraud, there is no question that it was COAs.

This is the best thread. Ever.

"Lawrence Eberhard, a genuinely nice bloke, but not fit for the office."

I have to take issue with this, I've worked for a dozen courier firms and he was the best controller I worked with, in his office (Cyclone) at a company that paid decent rates to riders and so didn't need you to bust your sack to make a living. Obviously in your hub ripping people off, he wouldn't be the best at that.

Mr Patton suggest (with an almost audible sneer) that you start your own courier company. To paraphrase Zappa - 'just what the world needs: another courier company.'
The world (or rather, the industry) needs rather fewer companies and rather more independents: put the means of production in the hands of the workers. No, I'm not suggesting a Marxist commune, more of an anarcho-syndaclist gang. The technology is now available to assist in such adventures. We've been moving towards it (on a small-town scale) here in Manchester, but I'm sure it would scale up.
No more bosses. I'm just saying...

I was sold down the swanny, all because you lost your 10g a month, which I see to be robbing us as riders blind, so did Bernie.

You sold out, and you sold me out, you sold out everyone else on the AY fleet.

All for 10g a month.

I do hope you got some tidied away somewhere, and that someone you don't know, finds it..

..it did sound like contempt.

it was mockery, at the expense of Mike T, John Scott, and Pikey, or is mockery only one way traffic on this site? As for the LCEF, action speaks louder than words and you'll see some true colours, some very generous colours. until a few days ago i didn't even realise it existed.

Thats the problem with some of the couriers on here, there is such contempt for the office staff (not controllers obviously) that there isn't true dialogue and you'll find that its that side that can make the biggest difference. I have already put a case to my seniors on supporting the LCEF. For egotistical reasons? hardly.

I have already put a case to my seniors on supporting the LCEF. For egotistical reasons? hardly. CRAWL!!! they just keep coming out of the ol' woodwork innyt?

"or is mockery only one way traffic on this site? "


Since you are the head-honcho at one of the biggest companies in london, and you are posting on a site dedicated to the people that risk their lives and line your pocket, I hardly think that mockery on your behalf is befitting. Your offer of donations is very generous, when do you think this might happen? Im sure london awaits your talk becoming reality.

@ zerofivezero innyt! will it..?

soon, very soon. I shall be talking to Steph.

come on, dedicated and risking your lives to line my pocket? a bit over the top.