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Control Box: Messenger Documentary / Movie

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthormd81544
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2006 edited
     
    I'm thinking about making a movie/documentary about bicycle couriers. I'm not a messenger, but I'm a keen London fixie rider and I reckon there would be lots of interest in such a film from the regular cycling ranks.

    It wouldn't be a long film (I reckon 45-60 mins tops), and it has a budget of ZERO, and I don't intend to profit from it. I would release it under a creative commons licence and it would be freely available / downloadable when done.

    I envisage interviews with messengers (I guess that'll be down the Duke of York then :-), and also lots of on-bike footage - following couriers during their normal working day etc.

    This is still completely in the conceptual stage, but I just want to find out whether anyone would be interested in taking part?

    Also any suggestions regarding format, soundtrack, etc are welcome.

    Cheers!

    Martyn
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2006 edited
     
    I'd ride with a camera on the bike for you.. I do observe red lights.. Pavements.. Pedestrians.. Vehicles and watered surfaces :shock: :wink:
    • CommentAuthorAnonymous
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2006 edited
     
    hmmmmmm
    • CommentAuthormd81544
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2006 edited
     
    Thanks Smifficus, however I was thinking about using MY bike as the camera mount - got it all sorted out. Going to test it tomorrow. I was thinking that it would be interesting to be FOLLOWING the messenger in question. Although maybe "messenger-eye-view" would be interesting too...
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2006 edited
     
    "Messenger eyeview" would be good footage on top of the footage of the "messenger in front" footage, especially if filming in moving traffic. Another camera on the underside of the saddle facing backward's would be good too.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2006 edited
     
    Or just a day of backward's cam.
    • CommentAuthormd81544
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2006 edited
     
    Hadn't thought of the backward-facing angle... I like it!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2006 edited
     
    Aah, you just gotta have some of that, what when people are cut up by a courier, what do they do? LOL.
    • CommentAuthorMrSoul
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    How about a black cabbie cam?

    I'd be interesting to see the cabbies faces when I stick my finger up at them and tell them to go fuck themselves.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    Forget cabcam, there is plenty of footage from the 'inside' of cab's, what there is not a lot of is decent footage of traffic surfing on a pushie. There are a few documentary type vid's out there made with scaffold poles attatched to a bike then the camera mounted on that, but that is mildly dangerous and technology has come on leaps and bound's since then, now there are camera's so small you can fit a whole unit inside a handlebar, and being so small mean's there is not much weight to the unit, resulting in a safer equalibrium between rider and bike. (Do I go for the gap, oh no I can't, there is a camera in the way.. Can I bunnyhop the kerb, oh no, ain't been to the gym recently. Trust me, I saw those London rider's 7-8 year's ago and felt the weight of what they were lugging round for the week, not good for great picture's, albeit a good idea at the time.)

    Md, have you thought about building specific mini camera(s) for the job, or just mounting a digicam to a stem? ( http://www.helmetcamera.com/ )
    • CommentAuthormd81544
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    I have a "bullet" cam, about the size of a lipstick, which serves as an attachment to the camera. Hence this mini camera can be mounted on the bars, stem, rider's head, bag strap, or forks near the hub (I've yet to try it down there but suspect that'll be more dramatic, being closer to the road), in all weather conditions, without affecting the ride at all. The camera can then sit safely in the messenger bag.

    -Martyn
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    That's perfect for the job.. How long can the player record for? (don't want it cutting out at the crucial moment, if there is one.)
    • CommentAuthormd81544
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    It attaches to the regular camera - which is mini-DV - so an hour before each tape change!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    Music for my footage if I do any for you, would have to be Prodigy Smack my bitch up - Dj Hype remix, which a friend of mine has a copy in MP3 format, along with 8000 other track's that span the board. (No hard rock or classical but pretty much a bit of everything else.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    An hour is good, about 6 jobs worth if there is 6 job's to do.
    • CommentAuthormd81544
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    Thanks _targetbot. In fact Lucas Brunelle's New York alleycat (and other) videos are what inspired this! He's got some fantastic footage. The guy actually strapped a camcorder to his helmet.
    • CommentAuthorMrSoul
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    I was joking about the cab cam but yeh ...

    anyone here seen 'red light go' ? www.redlightgo.ws i think ...
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     
    They are good vid's, but not from London. There is other footage of London rider's Ross and See a mouse. Ross was wiped out by a sideswipe from a motorcyclist. See a mouse was gap hunting. Chrissima had a camera follow last year, not sure what kind of footage was done then, or where to find it. (Maybe Chrissima can help there.)
    • CommentAuthorPOB/London
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2006 edited
     
    Yeah Smiffy, that was the one from the Film Festival last year, right?
    Man, I just checked out that Red Light Go thing. How annoying is that! "We followed them for 2 yrs ... even in prison ... riding for meagre rewards ... tight-knit community" etc ad nauseum.

    The old Lucas Brunelle stuff is really good because he never seeks to exploit or judges his subject. As soon as people start to make something marketable, it becomes a load of crap.

    Martyn, I wish you good luck with your film, but you should be aware that a few times a year messengers in London are approached in this way, and not a lot of good material has resulted.
    • CommentAuthorAnonymous
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2006 edited
     
    Yeah, I get that. Thanks. I was prepared for a certain amount of cynicism. Like I say, this is non-profit and I'd be happy to give participants previews, and allow for input/feedback etc. I'd like this to be a fly-on-the-wall, no commentary (apart from that of messengers) kind of thing. Kind of like Lucas Brunelle but with a bit more "behind the scenes" too.
    • CommentAuthormd81544
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2006 edited
     
    [quote="Anonymous"]Yeah, I get that. Thanks. I was prepared for a certain amount of cynicism. Like I say, this is non-profit and I'd be happy to give participants previews, and allow for input/feedback etc. I'd like this to be a fly-on-the-wall, no commentary (apart from that of messengers) kind of thing. Kind of like Lucas Brunelle but with a bit more "behind the scenes" too.[/quote]

    Bugger... forgot to log in. That was me :oops:

    -Martyn
    • CommentAuthorMrSoul
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2006 edited
     
    The only way to get couriers to take your project seriously is to basically let us (couriers/messengers whatever you like) to make it for you. In other words, be active in every creative process you do. From editing, to footage shot. If its not profit you'd have no problem with that.
    • CommentAuthormd81544
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2006 edited
     
    I agree. I'd have reservations on the editing thing though - hard to do by comittee - but would have no problems doing it iteratively, i.e. making one version, hearing feedback, making changes etc.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2006 edited
     
    Two head's are better than one, and there are some very creative rider's out there on circuit. Quite how they come to be doing this underpaid, undervalued and downright dangerous job is beyond me. I started because I saw it as a mean's to an end, being able to ride a bike and get paid to do so, I have progressed nowhere in the last howether many year's, whereas other's have got proper decent skill's which they have come from, to do this work. :shock:
    •  
      CommentAuthorBuffalo Bill
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2006 edited
     
    [quote="_targetbot"]I think 50 mins is far too long for a documentary unless you have a serious Michael Moore angle on the whole thing which would have to be completely bullshitted. Now that could be funny. Couriers only have an attention span of
    [/quote]

    I reckon that anyone would struggle to make more a 10 minute doc interesting to non-couriers. It's a pretty dull job, after all.

    There are some interesting stories, but... whatever it turns out to be, it needs a strong narrative. Anyone who has read 'Nerves of Steel' cover to cover knows what I mean.
    • CommentAuthormd81544
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2006 edited
     
    [quote="Buffalo Bill"]
    I reckon that anyone would struggle to make more a 10 minute doc interesting to non-couriers. It's a pretty dull job, after all.[/quote]

    I'm not sure... now, non-cyclists, yes, I agree. But you guys are held in pretty high esteem by the cycling fraternity. I see this as a film that would be of interest to cyclists in general. But not anyone else :)
    • CommentAuthorAnonymous
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2006 edited
     
    ^not the ones who say "do you always jump the red light" to which I always reply "yes"
  28.  
    yeah my girlfriend did an alleycat film with ross a few yrs back (redneck bandit27) which was shown at the bike film fest this yr - was cool, but a still a bit long at around 10mins odd..

    We did start makin a film "tag" about a courier chasing a rollerblader thro london.. did some wikkid shots with a bullet cam all over the bike an also on the blades! Not sure what we're doin with it now - poss music vid, etc.. The directors workin in hungary at the mo with his mrs. (girls always gettin in the way :p

    / C
    • CommentAuthorAnonymous
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2006 edited
     
    Maybe we should make the mrs's understand we have something important to show the world, which involves Mr Ed or whatever you wanna call it. (Or a bribe of chocolates and flowers every day for a month after.)
    • CommentAuthorAnonymous
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2006 edited
     
    theres lots of movies on www.youtube.com
    just type 'messenger' or' alleycat' in search...mostly nyc but also kyoto and poland
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2006 edited
     
    Again, not any from London...
    • CommentAuthorAnonymous
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2006 edited
     
    nope.what a shame...
    have a look at this trailer and a crash at the end of it.
    whos volunteering????
    www.petersutherland.net/Pedal.mov
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2006 edited
     
    Beiatch, cabkill. Again, not London. The two cyclist's who crashed into each other, what were they doing?
    • CommentAuthorAnonymous
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2006 edited
     
    showing off in front of the camera?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2006 edited
     
    I'm going to try and start a new co-op. I've had enough of lining someone else's pocket/garage for the work that "I" do. Anyone can answer the phone.. I will be looking for back up rider's to do the job's I will not be able to cover, from the Rolapalusa. Those that beat me in qualifying will stand a chance of working alongside me.
    I'm not sure how to go about setting up, or how much it is going to cost. (Anyone?)
    The company that is set up will not claw back any more than 20% of the docket (most firm's take back 50-70% of the docket)(Ta JV, you gave me the idea on how much the co' get's.) Making it possible for a rider who does 20 long job's a day to earn a chunk of money that is commensurate with what they do. (So far, most firm's pay a flat rate to the rider, whether it is an EC3-EC3 or an EC3-W1 the rider's will recieve the same, even though they have a sabstantial time difference between them in the time it takes to do either job. Some do have a sliding scale pay rate, but again, the rates paid to rider's are poor, considering that we are self employed, the structure of most companies are based on normal salaried job's within the office, but have a distance from the rider, in the rider not recieving any kind of sick/maternity pay or help with setting up their Tax/NI or any help with anything to do with the bikes used (like subsidised part's, again TA JV..), some even charging the rider for sub's against what they have already earned. The way I see it, most if not all firm's are only out there for the boss and the other's in the office that sometime's get paid way too much for what little "work" they do. What do they do?)
    I've seen it done before, so before you start berating me and digging yourself a salaried ride at some underpaying firm,I'll tell you about a fella called Reg, back in the day, 9 or so year's ago, he used to ride around the W/E and WC's, had 3 account's to start with, and never factored in what he could really have been earning, lest he would still be around today on some kind of bling-bling rig that all the rest of us could only dream about. He never charged enough in my eye's. (His co, Reg'bikes, lasted a few year's and had a few rider's. I wonder what he and the other's are up to now?)

    If I do get it off the ground, I will look to get every pushie onto this fleet, or have every company change the amount they have to pay their rider's, to stop them coming to a new co' that is stamping on their toes with 'exposed cleat' cycling boot's, The off road kind.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2006 edited
     
    you filming it?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2006 edited
     
    OOOOoooooh. That looks nice. What happened? (New thread..)
  38.  
    lamp post just stepped out at the last min I heard :)
    - oz next week is it?!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSmifficus
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2006 edited
     
    What, another out of towner...
  40.  
    i would be interested in funding this maybe if you have the interest - give me some idea of the costs
    why free distributipon ?
    there is some money in it maybe and you can decide what to do with it if it works (bike messenger emergency fund for instance)
    bought PEDAL from powerhouse in New York and think they did a good job on the NY messenger / fixed scene
    cheers

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